We got a tax bill from the IRS concerning my late MIL's final tax return. Hubs was on "perpetual" hold for 45 minutes before the 'voice' told him to call back later and hung up. He tried x2 again. I finally looked up the local IRS. He called to make an in-person appt. When explained to the live person the issue, she cleared it uo in less than 5 minutes. I too look forward to reading your work.
The IRS having shed itself of many of the staff who used to help with errors is now one of the worst. With firms you can threaten suit and make them pay lawyers. The IRS can seize your assets. I have to file on paper. The forms are scanned and occasionally mis-read. Four letters (tracked, faxed, Web portal and certified) later they still threaten levy over my claim to HOH status for a noncitizen grandchild. I’ve now invoked the Taxpayer Assistance Service. But in the end, as once in the past, it may take invoking US Tax Court where a real lawyer will see the facts and agree to summary judgment. The curiosity here is that I actually (after hours of trying) spoke to staff — and even IRS lawyers — who concede what is clearly in Pub 501 Table 4. Ut “have no authority to act: you have to write a letter”.
With private firms you can maybe do a credit card chargeback. Not with the IRS.
The Phone Tree is surely a feature of Asshole Capitalism - the stage we are now in. The motto is “Give us your money and fuck you because you don’t have much choice.” It’s pervasive and intentional.
Being an expertly patient person, I have had several experiences of trying to navigate complaints through a phone tree - apt phrase - about false charges on a credit card, items ordered that never arrived, or even trying to reach my doctor to respond to a message. I appreciate this essay, and look forward to the next segment. Thank you for this information!
Wow! You have discovered the huge problem now comfortably built into all big business models. We individual consumers fight a losing battle against these corporate muggers.
Sometimes it does feel like we are here only to provide funds for those huge money machines. Where does our money go?
But turning AI into a counter answer to the endless
Music and multiple layers of denial could really work. Again though, unless such a machine to work for frustrated consumers would not be free. Nothing is for us at the bottom of the current monetary economic system.
You're right, nothing is free. For me pricing is about aligning incentives. A flat price only survives by being worth it to you. A percentage of your savings, or your data, means someone profits from the size of your problems
But we also benefit when we are able to reward real service or products that make our lives better. It’s that exchange, products and skills in return for a mutually valuable “something” that forms the basis of human community.
What confuses me is how the crypto mania will end. I just keep remembering the infamous tulip crash in the 1700’s.
The phone tree has only one role and that is to exasperate you into hanging up. My favorite after the AI bullshit algorithms (“designed to get you to our support person best able to help you”… total crap) you get someone who makes you go through all the same questions you already answered with the AI algorithm ( which shouldn’t they have?) and they hang up on you… an hour wasted or they have to hand you off to someone else and they barely speak English and are in some other country where they were hired in the cheap. They can’t understand you and say they put your request into the system, but of course they didn’t. American companies like Xfinity have these systems and hire people in other countries when hiring Americans would vastly improve their customer support, greed get in their way.
They could use technology to solve or directly address your problem or use it to get you to push it to another day. It's unfortunate many companies choose the latter.
You used to be able to escape the phone tree by pressing 0 a whole bunch of times, but now the systems are programmed to disconnect if you do that. I find that, although it doesn’t always work, this works often. I start screaming into the phone, “Oh my god, help me! I fell, I can’t get up! Help, help, oh, it hurts! HELP! Amazingly, most of the time you get a live person when you do that. Sometimes it’s even the right person. And it’s fun
I have been talking to people more and more about this phenomenon. I currently work for my brother and a good portion of my working week is persisting at getting through processes that seem hell bent on keeping us out. He simply doesn't have the time or energy to do this stuff. It takes a lot of tenacity.
Thank you for this. I don’t know if it motivates me to get on the fucking phone (worse, it’s a phone issue that will cost me very month), switch carriers for the third time, or let it go and get angry again next month. At least I know it’s part of their plan. 😡😡😡
Does anyone share the view that the baseline problem is honesty? That your word is your bond and that you, as in corporations, should be held to a high standard of honesty and integrity, indeed, hold yourself to a high standard? Where is Congress? We still get robocalls and scam calls and the FSB has been cut. Both government and Business together could very easily fix these issues. It is a sad commentary on American society that you need to take the time to find a work around because so many people are not doing the right thing. I commend you and I despair our current business and government ethics.
We got a tax bill from the IRS concerning my late MIL's final tax return. Hubs was on "perpetual" hold for 45 minutes before the 'voice' told him to call back later and hung up. He tried x2 again. I finally looked up the local IRS. He called to make an in-person appt. When explained to the live person the issue, she cleared it uo in less than 5 minutes. I too look forward to reading your work.
Giving everyone back time is the ultimate goal
The IRS having shed itself of many of the staff who used to help with errors is now one of the worst. With firms you can threaten suit and make them pay lawyers. The IRS can seize your assets. I have to file on paper. The forms are scanned and occasionally mis-read. Four letters (tracked, faxed, Web portal and certified) later they still threaten levy over my claim to HOH status for a noncitizen grandchild. I’ve now invoked the Taxpayer Assistance Service. But in the end, as once in the past, it may take invoking US Tax Court where a real lawyer will see the facts and agree to summary judgment. The curiosity here is that I actually (after hours of trying) spoke to staff — and even IRS lawyers — who concede what is clearly in Pub 501 Table 4. Ut “have no authority to act: you have to write a letter”.
With private firms you can maybe do a credit card chargeback. Not with the IRS.
The Phone Tree is surely a feature of Asshole Capitalism - the stage we are now in. The motto is “Give us your money and fuck you because you don’t have much choice.” It’s pervasive and intentional.
Being an expertly patient person, I have had several experiences of trying to navigate complaints through a phone tree - apt phrase - about false charges on a credit card, items ordered that never arrived, or even trying to reach my doctor to respond to a message. I appreciate this essay, and look forward to the next segment. Thank you for this information!
All of these historically straightforward conversations have become so much more difficult over time.
This is a brilliant idea, and it’s the way we need to be thinking as we defend ourselves against malignant technology.
I firmly believe it's possible to even the playing field
Wow! You have discovered the huge problem now comfortably built into all big business models. We individual consumers fight a losing battle against these corporate muggers.
Sometimes it does feel like we are here only to provide funds for those huge money machines. Where does our money go?
But turning AI into a counter answer to the endless
Music and multiple layers of denial could really work. Again though, unless such a machine to work for frustrated consumers would not be free. Nothing is for us at the bottom of the current monetary economic system.
Please tell us more. I’m interested!
You're right, nothing is free. For me pricing is about aligning incentives. A flat price only survives by being worth it to you. A percentage of your savings, or your data, means someone profits from the size of your problems
But we also benefit when we are able to reward real service or products that make our lives better. It’s that exchange, products and skills in return for a mutually valuable “something” that forms the basis of human community.
What confuses me is how the crypto mania will end. I just keep remembering the infamous tulip crash in the 1700’s.
The phone tree has only one role and that is to exasperate you into hanging up. My favorite after the AI bullshit algorithms (“designed to get you to our support person best able to help you”… total crap) you get someone who makes you go through all the same questions you already answered with the AI algorithm ( which shouldn’t they have?) and they hang up on you… an hour wasted or they have to hand you off to someone else and they barely speak English and are in some other country where they were hired in the cheap. They can’t understand you and say they put your request into the system, but of course they didn’t. American companies like Xfinity have these systems and hire people in other countries when hiring Americans would vastly improve their customer support, greed get in their way.
They could use technology to solve or directly address your problem or use it to get you to push it to another day. It's unfortunate many companies choose the latter.
Have you tried to call Verizon about anything? Oi.
You’re on to something. I’ve heard of friends asking chat bots to negotiate better subscriptions for them, Bott to Bott.
Why not write a letter to the BBC? You'll get a very swift reply if your idea is published. (They also do overseas bits and pieces.)
Or you could write an open letter to the firm? Do you think they want the publicity?
There are other options...
An excellent, if depressing, post. Too true.
Sorry. There can be more than one Tim Snyder... Even more than one with a Substack account and Blog.
You used to be able to escape the phone tree by pressing 0 a whole bunch of times, but now the systems are programmed to disconnect if you do that. I find that, although it doesn’t always work, this works often. I start screaming into the phone, “Oh my god, help me! I fell, I can’t get up! Help, help, oh, it hurts! HELP! Amazingly, most of the time you get a live person when you do that. Sometimes it’s even the right person. And it’s fun
I have been talking to people more and more about this phenomenon. I currently work for my brother and a good portion of my working week is persisting at getting through processes that seem hell bent on keeping us out. He simply doesn't have the time or energy to do this stuff. It takes a lot of tenacity.
Thank you for this. I don’t know if it motivates me to get on the fucking phone (worse, it’s a phone issue that will cost me very month), switch carriers for the third time, or let it go and get angry again next month. At least I know it’s part of their plan. 😡😡😡
Does anyone share the view that the baseline problem is honesty? That your word is your bond and that you, as in corporations, should be held to a high standard of honesty and integrity, indeed, hold yourself to a high standard? Where is Congress? We still get robocalls and scam calls and the FSB has been cut. Both government and Business together could very easily fix these issues. It is a sad commentary on American society that you need to take the time to find a work around because so many people are not doing the right thing. I commend you and I despair our current business and government ethics.
This has infuriated me for a long time.